After years of web crawling, I finally went and visited the famous high end Kohler dealer, Ferguson, about my replacement bathtub. I've decided not to do a whole bath remodel, instead just a bath and tile replacement for now. And I've decided I need to roll on this project now, this month or next if possible.
The past week's research suggested (incorrectly) that the Kohler Tea for Two, 60x32, would work for 3 corner alcove installation. I selected alcove installation on the Kohler website, and it came up. Likewise the Highbridge in 60x32, which had been my reluctant first choice, since it had, until this past week, appeared like the 60x32 Tea for Two wasn't suitable for alcove installation, which I had somehow determined some time back, last year maybe, despite what the Kohler website filters say. Only the 66x36 Tea for Two actually has a tile flange, making alcove installation possible, but then also it becomes more like 66x38 when installed with suitable deck, which neither Ferguson nor Kohler can provide, it needs to be constructed by carpenter.
The sales lady at Ferguson figured out that those two models wouldn't work. So then she suggested Mendota, which came up showing 60x32. But if you get the metal apron, which I basically need, it turns out, then it's 60x34, which doesn't work. I need 60x32 and no more, the original tub is 60x30 and I can just barely fit in a 60x32 and meet code. Unless I am planning to move two drains, replace all cabinetry, etc, a whole remodel. More is much more expense, and can't be done incrementally. So 60x32 it is. (Or even 60x30, though I feel that size doesn't give the luxury feel to either showering or bathing that 60x32 does. So it's worth going with the 60x32. I might miss the extra space between tub and toilet. When I get around to the later phases of bathroom remodeling, I could decide to move the toilet drain a bit to give me back the side room I will be missing, though I think I can live without it, it will still have more side room than the toilet in the other bathroom--which I like better overall. But moving the toilet drain is also not inconceivable. I just don't want to do that now, since I can't do it without replacing the vanity--the whole remodel.)
Then she suggested Dynametric, which I said didn't have enough water depth.
So I suggested the Bellwether, which had been my backup choice a year ago if I couldn't afford to do all the room mods (including moving tub and toilet drains, a wall, and part of a closet to get the 66x36 Tea for Two--and that's the only Tea for Two that works because it has the tile flange. Bellwether looks good, too, better than I remember. If you look at gallons the tub holds, it's just one step down from the Highbridge, which itself is just a step below Tea for Two:
(60x32)
Tea for Two
60 gallons, 13+ inch depth
Highbridge
50 gallons, 12+ inch depth
Bellwether
44 gallons, 11+ inch depth
Villager and Dynametric
35 gallons, 8+ inch depth
So it turns out the Bellwether is the biggest I can get. I have been promised email with an estimate. I also asked for drain with lift and twist stopper instead of pop-up. That is not listed, so I asked if I could get a lift and twist stopper part and use it with the pop-up drain. The sales lady went to talk to the manager about this, and came back saying yes, she could get the stopper changed to lift and twist. But then there was a strange power failure, and the computer never came back up. So my friend and I took a last tour around the store. I pointed out some crazy expensive lights. It was already closing time, so we left after just a couple minutes browsing added to the 15 or so when we got to the store.
With black trim, I think a white tub doesn't work. I've always liked the yellower tubs. Bisque was one of the colors I associate with high end tubs I saw in the 80's, and I thought then it was the coolest, and if I ever got a tub upgraded, it would be bisque.
But you have to see Kohler's colors in the tile samples to know anything (my calibrated CRT does well also, but my LCD monitor makes everything look very pale). Kohler's colors tend to be lighter than those used by other manufacturers with the same names. The Bisque is very light, close to white, looking a bit like dirty white, Noelia thought.
The Almond is more like the color I remember from high end tubs in the 80's. It's a nice color, not too light or too dark (though I might have had it a trifle more saturated or dark). Actually, I have it on good authority from a blog at Terry's site that Kohler "Almond" is actually what Toto and American Standard call "Bone". Kohler's Bisque is what Toto calls Beige and and American Standard calls Linen. All the other colors are like that also. There's no standardization in names, though they have pretty similar colors.
Color experts say the main thing is to have off white with off white, or white with white. A perfect match between bathtub and commode isn't going to happen anyway, and even if you get the identical colors from same manufacturer (and they aren't the same always) they won't match because of reflected light and context in the room. The closer you look the more you see that colors looking the same everywhere is an abstraction we tend to impose. Our senses tend to show us different things depending on what surrounds something, and in the case of something somewhat reflective, what reflects in it also.
Well I'm glad I wasn't forced to choose something like the "Almond" used in my kitchen oven, range, and range hood. That is a very different color from Kohler's Almond. It's a very saturated yellow with greenish overtones. If that is the infamous 80's "Almond" I can see why it might fall from fashion quickly.
What the other companies call Kohler's "Almond", Bone, is closer, though that isn't quite right either. It is too beige for Bone. In fact, beige might not be a bad description. Kohler doesn't have a beige.
Buzz is that Almond is passé. But at the same time, experts say nothing is ever outdated. They are selling everything all the time. It depends on context, what you like, what you are trying to accomplish, etc. Yes there was a big wave of Almond (if that is similar to Kohler's current Almond 47 or not) in the 80's, which went away, and the majority of sales went back to white. But colors still sell. And especially for custom work. Almond, bisque, beige, etc., are among the most popular, being lighter than many others. Not too many people get the darkest colors in tubs, etc. But, yes, they sell those too, and sometimes it's just the ticket.
Speaking of which, we also considered Mexican Sand, and in fact that was what I originally asked for, but it is not a standard color for the Belwether, and it looks darker than I expected anyway. Too dark, I fear, to be completely comfortable with. I want a tub to be somewhat visible, so it seems safe. Dark seems mysterious and dangerous.
That was my feeling, anyway, from looking at the sample porcelain pieces, which looked different from the paper samples, which looked far different from what I had seen on computer monitors, though my old CRT seems to give a fairly good rendition from what I remember.
The past week's research suggested (incorrectly) that the Kohler Tea for Two, 60x32, would work for 3 corner alcove installation. I selected alcove installation on the Kohler website, and it came up. Likewise the Highbridge in 60x32, which had been my reluctant first choice, since it had, until this past week, appeared like the 60x32 Tea for Two wasn't suitable for alcove installation, which I had somehow determined some time back, last year maybe, despite what the Kohler website filters say. Only the 66x36 Tea for Two actually has a tile flange, making alcove installation possible, but then also it becomes more like 66x38 when installed with suitable deck, which neither Ferguson nor Kohler can provide, it needs to be constructed by carpenter.
The sales lady at Ferguson figured out that those two models wouldn't work. So then she suggested Mendota, which came up showing 60x32. But if you get the metal apron, which I basically need, it turns out, then it's 60x34, which doesn't work. I need 60x32 and no more, the original tub is 60x30 and I can just barely fit in a 60x32 and meet code. Unless I am planning to move two drains, replace all cabinetry, etc, a whole remodel. More is much more expense, and can't be done incrementally. So 60x32 it is. (Or even 60x30, though I feel that size doesn't give the luxury feel to either showering or bathing that 60x32 does. So it's worth going with the 60x32. I might miss the extra space between tub and toilet. When I get around to the later phases of bathroom remodeling, I could decide to move the toilet drain a bit to give me back the side room I will be missing, though I think I can live without it, it will still have more side room than the toilet in the other bathroom--which I like better overall. But moving the toilet drain is also not inconceivable. I just don't want to do that now, since I can't do it without replacing the vanity--the whole remodel.)
Then she suggested Dynametric, which I said didn't have enough water depth.
So I suggested the Bellwether, which had been my backup choice a year ago if I couldn't afford to do all the room mods (including moving tub and toilet drains, a wall, and part of a closet to get the 66x36 Tea for Two--and that's the only Tea for Two that works because it has the tile flange. Bellwether looks good, too, better than I remember. If you look at gallons the tub holds, it's just one step down from the Highbridge, which itself is just a step below Tea for Two:
(60x32)
Tea for Two
60 gallons, 13+ inch depth
Highbridge
50 gallons, 12+ inch depth
Bellwether
44 gallons, 11+ inch depth
Villager and Dynametric
35 gallons, 8+ inch depth
So it turns out the Bellwether is the biggest I can get. I have been promised email with an estimate. I also asked for drain with lift and twist stopper instead of pop-up. That is not listed, so I asked if I could get a lift and twist stopper part and use it with the pop-up drain. The sales lady went to talk to the manager about this, and came back saying yes, she could get the stopper changed to lift and twist. But then there was a strange power failure, and the computer never came back up. So my friend and I took a last tour around the store. I pointed out some crazy expensive lights. It was already closing time, so we left after just a couple minutes browsing added to the 15 or so when we got to the store.
With black trim, I think a white tub doesn't work. I've always liked the yellower tubs. Bisque was one of the colors I associate with high end tubs I saw in the 80's, and I thought then it was the coolest, and if I ever got a tub upgraded, it would be bisque.
But you have to see Kohler's colors in the tile samples to know anything (my calibrated CRT does well also, but my LCD monitor makes everything look very pale). Kohler's colors tend to be lighter than those used by other manufacturers with the same names. The Bisque is very light, close to white, looking a bit like dirty white, Noelia thought.
The Almond is more like the color I remember from high end tubs in the 80's. It's a nice color, not too light or too dark (though I might have had it a trifle more saturated or dark). Actually, I have it on good authority from a blog at Terry's site that Kohler "Almond" is actually what Toto and American Standard call "Bone". Kohler's Bisque is what Toto calls Beige and and American Standard calls Linen. All the other colors are like that also. There's no standardization in names, though they have pretty similar colors.
Color experts say the main thing is to have off white with off white, or white with white. A perfect match between bathtub and commode isn't going to happen anyway, and even if you get the identical colors from same manufacturer (and they aren't the same always) they won't match because of reflected light and context in the room. The closer you look the more you see that colors looking the same everywhere is an abstraction we tend to impose. Our senses tend to show us different things depending on what surrounds something, and in the case of something somewhat reflective, what reflects in it also.
Well I'm glad I wasn't forced to choose something like the "Almond" used in my kitchen oven, range, and range hood. That is a very different color from Kohler's Almond. It's a very saturated yellow with greenish overtones. If that is the infamous 80's "Almond" I can see why it might fall from fashion quickly.
What the other companies call Kohler's "Almond", Bone, is closer, though that isn't quite right either. It is too beige for Bone. In fact, beige might not be a bad description. Kohler doesn't have a beige.
Buzz is that Almond is passé. But at the same time, experts say nothing is ever outdated. They are selling everything all the time. It depends on context, what you like, what you are trying to accomplish, etc. Yes there was a big wave of Almond (if that is similar to Kohler's current Almond 47 or not) in the 80's, which went away, and the majority of sales went back to white. But colors still sell. And especially for custom work. Almond, bisque, beige, etc., are among the most popular, being lighter than many others. Not too many people get the darkest colors in tubs, etc. But, yes, they sell those too, and sometimes it's just the ticket.
Speaking of which, we also considered Mexican Sand, and in fact that was what I originally asked for, but it is not a standard color for the Belwether, and it looks darker than I expected anyway. Too dark, I fear, to be completely comfortable with. I want a tub to be somewhat visible, so it seems safe. Dark seems mysterious and dangerous.
That was my feeling, anyway, from looking at the sample porcelain pieces, which looked different from the paper samples, which looked far different from what I had seen on computer monitors, though my old CRT seems to give a fairly good rendition from what I remember.
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