I called the plumbing company on June 15 to complain about the high price I had been charged the previous day. I argued that for two hours of total time, including 45 minutes for a trip to the plumbing supply store, I payed $765 for labor, an exhorbitant amount. While I agreed to the first charge (for reverse osmosis installation), and agreed in advance to whatever the second charge (for icemaker water hookup) was going to be, I was then charged $365 for the hookup, which took 15 actual minutes of labor. I believed that the flat rate charges for both items included the addition of a water supply cutoff valve, which was not necessary in my case as the previous plumber had already installed on, so I was being charged twice for something that didn't even have to be done.
Their counterarguments were that with a flat rate charge, sometimes it will take less time than expected and other times more. The installer I had was very good and fast (I agreed). The charges have to account for the 30 day warranty and potential liability.
I had to wait about 25 minutes on the phone before being connected to the big boss, who particularly made the point about the warranty. He apologized for the long wait, said he had to make sure he had all the information. He apologized for not having given me the Angie's List discount, so for that he was giving me the normal 10% discount and an additional 5% discount because they erred on this, lowering the cost to $651. He didn't recognize that they had made any mistake in charging me. He also was extending my warranty from 30 days to 6 months.
I thanked him and accepted the offer. He said my card payment hadn't been made yet and so would be adjusted to the new amount.
I accepted the offer because I figured it was the best the owner would do, because he was not going to be inclined to admit they had made any other mistakes other than not giving me the Angie's List discount.
I had been hoping for about $200 off, based on the arguments I had been making, instead of about $115 off. I would feel entirely comfortable for the RO installation with icemaker hookup at about $550, just over $200 off. Mind you, if my old contractor Mark (brother-in-law's friend) in San Diego were still alive, I couldn't imagine him charging me more than $200 for this job now (or $150 back then), and he would do everything perfectly, to the highest standards, with a complete explanation. That's the kind of price and service you could expect from a good friend. I've looked on the web and it seems icemaker hookup typically costs around $125 instead of $360. With my 15% discount, the new price is $306 for the icemaker, and $396 for the RO installation.
One way, however, that I can be happy with this is remembering that the plumber also fixed my expansion valve with a bicycle pump on the same visit (that was how it started). For that, I was charged only a $39 service call, virtually a giveaway. I would have been willing to pay $160 for that, even though it only took 15 minutes of onsite work, simply because of the plumber coming out and applying his knowledge and skill to the situation. So if I lost $100 on the second part of the job, I had gained it on the first. So considering everything, I can't be horribly upset. Compared with typical plumber (they are always high priced, especially good ones) experience, it is typical.
And part of my cost is the lesson, always ask for hard estimate in advance.
I had been thinking, wrongly it turns out, that since the plumber didn't have to give me an exact estimate on the icemaker hookup, and it took so little time, he would be lenient on the charge, given that it takes time and effort to do the estimate itself. So he would, I hoped, pass on the time savings as a discount to me.
But now I see why it doesn't work this way. The plumber is only going to give you the best price he has to give you. If you don't agree to a price in advance, he'll pull out some book showing astronomical charges (as this one did). But if he has to offer a price first, he's forced to make a better price, because otherwise you may not agree. He may then find creative ways to lower the book charges. I have seen that happen so many times I was wrongly expecting it in this case.
So now consider the typical recommendation to get 3 estimates for any significant work. The time it takes for contractors to do 2 extra estimates for every job is very substantial. They could possibly do twice as many paying jobs otherwise! Who pays that cost? Well, if possible, the extra cost is paid for by the sucker who doesn't get an estimate first. Since he's not demanding the best price, he doesn't get it!
So why not always get three estimates, if you aren't going to be paying for them, and even likely saving money thereby? Well one good reason not to is that it takes a lot of time and effort on the part of the homeowner to get these estimates! Each estimate requires waiting at home, using vacation time or comp hours. There's the hassle of getting up early, cleaning up, etc., beforehand. I'd say that if I were charging contractors to give me an estimate, I'd charge about $100 for my time and effort for each estimate. So by not getting three estimates first on Thursday's work, I saved $200 of my own time and effort as compared with going with competitive estimates first.
So there you see it the other way. The contractor CAN charge more when there are no competitive estimates, and DOES charge more, but it might still be worth it, from the homeowners perspective to save his own time, but that is all the more reason why the contractor CAN and WILL charge more.
The plumber's name, btw, is Will's Plumbing.
More briefly, it's not cost that determines price, but need. If they need to get you a lower price to get your business, they might charge you a lower price. But if they don't need to, they won't. That's the basic pricing model.
Now I remember that my previous plumber, which I had many other issues with, did charge basically on an hourly rate. I think that works better for the homeowner. Not only do you not get stuck with astronomical charges for a generalized situation, the plumber has no incentive to cut corners to take less time.
Their counterarguments were that with a flat rate charge, sometimes it will take less time than expected and other times more. The installer I had was very good and fast (I agreed). The charges have to account for the 30 day warranty and potential liability.
I had to wait about 25 minutes on the phone before being connected to the big boss, who particularly made the point about the warranty. He apologized for the long wait, said he had to make sure he had all the information. He apologized for not having given me the Angie's List discount, so for that he was giving me the normal 10% discount and an additional 5% discount because they erred on this, lowering the cost to $651. He didn't recognize that they had made any mistake in charging me. He also was extending my warranty from 30 days to 6 months.
I thanked him and accepted the offer. He said my card payment hadn't been made yet and so would be adjusted to the new amount.
I accepted the offer because I figured it was the best the owner would do, because he was not going to be inclined to admit they had made any other mistakes other than not giving me the Angie's List discount.
I had been hoping for about $200 off, based on the arguments I had been making, instead of about $115 off. I would feel entirely comfortable for the RO installation with icemaker hookup at about $550, just over $200 off. Mind you, if my old contractor Mark (brother-in-law's friend) in San Diego were still alive, I couldn't imagine him charging me more than $200 for this job now (or $150 back then), and he would do everything perfectly, to the highest standards, with a complete explanation. That's the kind of price and service you could expect from a good friend. I've looked on the web and it seems icemaker hookup typically costs around $125 instead of $360. With my 15% discount, the new price is $306 for the icemaker, and $396 for the RO installation.
One way, however, that I can be happy with this is remembering that the plumber also fixed my expansion valve with a bicycle pump on the same visit (that was how it started). For that, I was charged only a $39 service call, virtually a giveaway. I would have been willing to pay $160 for that, even though it only took 15 minutes of onsite work, simply because of the plumber coming out and applying his knowledge and skill to the situation. So if I lost $100 on the second part of the job, I had gained it on the first. So considering everything, I can't be horribly upset. Compared with typical plumber (they are always high priced, especially good ones) experience, it is typical.
And part of my cost is the lesson, always ask for hard estimate in advance.
I had been thinking, wrongly it turns out, that since the plumber didn't have to give me an exact estimate on the icemaker hookup, and it took so little time, he would be lenient on the charge, given that it takes time and effort to do the estimate itself. So he would, I hoped, pass on the time savings as a discount to me.
But now I see why it doesn't work this way. The plumber is only going to give you the best price he has to give you. If you don't agree to a price in advance, he'll pull out some book showing astronomical charges (as this one did). But if he has to offer a price first, he's forced to make a better price, because otherwise you may not agree. He may then find creative ways to lower the book charges. I have seen that happen so many times I was wrongly expecting it in this case.
So now consider the typical recommendation to get 3 estimates for any significant work. The time it takes for contractors to do 2 extra estimates for every job is very substantial. They could possibly do twice as many paying jobs otherwise! Who pays that cost? Well, if possible, the extra cost is paid for by the sucker who doesn't get an estimate first. Since he's not demanding the best price, he doesn't get it!
So why not always get three estimates, if you aren't going to be paying for them, and even likely saving money thereby? Well one good reason not to is that it takes a lot of time and effort on the part of the homeowner to get these estimates! Each estimate requires waiting at home, using vacation time or comp hours. There's the hassle of getting up early, cleaning up, etc., beforehand. I'd say that if I were charging contractors to give me an estimate, I'd charge about $100 for my time and effort for each estimate. So by not getting three estimates first on Thursday's work, I saved $200 of my own time and effort as compared with going with competitive estimates first.
So there you see it the other way. The contractor CAN charge more when there are no competitive estimates, and DOES charge more, but it might still be worth it, from the homeowners perspective to save his own time, but that is all the more reason why the contractor CAN and WILL charge more.
The plumber's name, btw, is Will's Plumbing.
More briefly, it's not cost that determines price, but need. If they need to get you a lower price to get your business, they might charge you a lower price. But if they don't need to, they won't. That's the basic pricing model.
Now I remember that my previous plumber, which I had many other issues with, did charge basically on an hourly rate. I think that works better for the homeowner. Not only do you not get stuck with astronomical charges for a generalized situation, the plumber has no incentive to cut corners to take less time.
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