I finally had consolation with the Plumber, the principal Plumber himself. As a result, I've made the following choices:
Valve will be Delta 1700 series. He has installed and used this himself for over a decade and highly recommends it. It gets high marks elsewhere too (though in this link they put the Hansgrohe…read very expensive and hard to get parts…on top). I had pre-selected either this Delta or the Moentrol, depending on plumber's advice. The plumber knows how these things stand up to local hard water, the availability of spare parts, etc. So I go with his advice, and AFAIK the Delta has many advantages, intuitive use, upgradeable platform, and made-in-USA.
When the plumber was out I suggested the 17078-SS valve cover, but have subsequently decided I like the 17038-SS slightly better and will update the plumber on Monday.
I will not get second hand spray head mounted on vertical rod with in-wall flow valve. That would add $750 to the price for something I don't much use, and I'm not sure I like it better either. I will use shower arm diverter and hand spray attached as I now have in other bathroom, using the Delta paddle type shower arm diverter which is a small miracle--it works better than anything. Plumber recommends getting some more of those paddle type diverters for future replacement.
As an aside, this will also permit a full length horizontal grab bar underneath the spray heads. The vertical rod might have interfered with that.
For the time being, I've chosen the Delta H2OKinetic 52660-SS spray head. It sounds very good and gets good reviews, and the finish will match the Delta valve cover of course. Plumber says spray head is a personal choice and easily replaced later and he didn't recommend anything. I had pre selected this spray head (also supposedly self-cleaning) even if I were to get the Moen valve.
I will replace the toilet. The old one has to be removed to get the tub in anyway. It wasn't that I didn't want new toilet but rather only I wanted to avoid the additional expense now. But it would be nice to have new toilet particularly to get comfort height and elongated bowl. So I told the plumber that and he recommended the Kohler K-4484 and K-4304 combination with Sloan pressurized flush unit. Apparently the Sloan unit (actually available for many different toilets) has become the top standard since new water regulations (1.2 gallons or something like that…1.6 is now ancient history here) went into effect…it has the best pressured flush system available. The Toto toilet I had preselected was only recommended in the 1.6 flush version, I had no preselection in 1.2 gallon flush. Kohler is a top quality brand, good styling, an American brand which does a lot of manufacturing in USA, and the Almond color will match my Kohler tub perfectly. The Sloan flush unit will be repairable for the foreseeable future, especially through my current plumber who recommended it.
I will get the Kohler Coralais 8 inch bathtub diverter spout. The plumber was aware of how heavy and solid this unit is compared with others. It's solid brass. But the finish will have to be Chrome since it's unavailable in Brushed Nickel or Stainless steel. At that point, he suggested making everything chrome, or going with the 7.6 inch Moen diverter spout I had preselected to make everything brushed nickel.
But I had already decided otherwise, that it was OK for the spout to be chrome and everything else Brushed Nickel. I know this is bending "the rules" but if you read design blogs as much as I do, you find that nearly everyone bends the rules. Mixing different finishes *can* be done. My thought was a chrome spout, sort of in "the middle", with everything else brushed nickel would be OK. If the Corolais had been available in Brushed Nickel I would have gotten that. But function is the most important thing, and the Coralais looks like the best diverter spout for someone with a Bellwether tub. Looks made for that purpose. Matches the style too. Most other spouts are too short.
Speaking of which, the Delta valve cover and shower head are not actually brushed nickel either. They are "stainless steel." But apparently Delta's regular Stainless is pretty close to what everyone else calls Brushed Nickel. It has a slight yellow undertone. Delta doesn't have a brushed nickel option for most parts. From all I can see online it's close enough, and I've read discussions on this too. Delta has recently introduced "Arctic Stainless Steel" specifically to be less yellow and match what other manufacturers call Stainless Steel. I want the original Delta stainless, basically the same as Brushed Nickel. Stainless Steel gets its colors from the steel, large amounts of nickel, and tiny bit of chromium.
The warmth of Brushed Nickel and Delta's stainless is a great match for the Almond color of my tub and the gold lines in the porcelain tile. Chrome looks bluish and cool, good for white but not almond. I also just like (have always liked) the look of brushed nickel, and it doesn't show water spots, etc. For something that gets cleaned only once a month by my housecleaners, that will be best. Some people say that Brushed Nickel is a fad…but I don't think so. I see Brushed Nickel, which was the standard high end finish before the 1920's, as resuming its rightful place beside Chrome. My idea of a fad would be oil rubbed bronze…who needs that kind of maintenance hassle? Brushed Nickel is said to be equally durable to Chrome, and some say Brushed Nickel is more durable than Chrome.
The plumber will pick up and deliver the tub when it is needed from Ferguson. That way he provides delivery and warranty. He says he deals with Ferguson all the time, and will buy the other parts from them also. So I will need to cancel existing order with Ferguson and have it switched over to the plumber. I have emailed Ferguson. I worry that the sales lady might loose some commission doing it this way (going to the plumber instead).
Valve will be Delta 1700 series. He has installed and used this himself for over a decade and highly recommends it. It gets high marks elsewhere too (though in this link they put the Hansgrohe…read very expensive and hard to get parts…on top). I had pre-selected either this Delta or the Moentrol, depending on plumber's advice. The plumber knows how these things stand up to local hard water, the availability of spare parts, etc. So I go with his advice, and AFAIK the Delta has many advantages, intuitive use, upgradeable platform, and made-in-USA.
When the plumber was out I suggested the 17078-SS valve cover, but have subsequently decided I like the 17038-SS slightly better and will update the plumber on Monday.
I will not get second hand spray head mounted on vertical rod with in-wall flow valve. That would add $750 to the price for something I don't much use, and I'm not sure I like it better either. I will use shower arm diverter and hand spray attached as I now have in other bathroom, using the Delta paddle type shower arm diverter which is a small miracle--it works better than anything. Plumber recommends getting some more of those paddle type diverters for future replacement.
As an aside, this will also permit a full length horizontal grab bar underneath the spray heads. The vertical rod might have interfered with that.
For the time being, I've chosen the Delta H2OKinetic 52660-SS spray head. It sounds very good and gets good reviews, and the finish will match the Delta valve cover of course. Plumber says spray head is a personal choice and easily replaced later and he didn't recommend anything. I had pre selected this spray head (also supposedly self-cleaning) even if I were to get the Moen valve.
I will replace the toilet. The old one has to be removed to get the tub in anyway. It wasn't that I didn't want new toilet but rather only I wanted to avoid the additional expense now. But it would be nice to have new toilet particularly to get comfort height and elongated bowl. So I told the plumber that and he recommended the Kohler K-4484 and K-4304 combination with Sloan pressurized flush unit. Apparently the Sloan unit (actually available for many different toilets) has become the top standard since new water regulations (1.2 gallons or something like that…1.6 is now ancient history here) went into effect…it has the best pressured flush system available. The Toto toilet I had preselected was only recommended in the 1.6 flush version, I had no preselection in 1.2 gallon flush. Kohler is a top quality brand, good styling, an American brand which does a lot of manufacturing in USA, and the Almond color will match my Kohler tub perfectly. The Sloan flush unit will be repairable for the foreseeable future, especially through my current plumber who recommended it.
I will get the Kohler Coralais 8 inch bathtub diverter spout. The plumber was aware of how heavy and solid this unit is compared with others. It's solid brass. But the finish will have to be Chrome since it's unavailable in Brushed Nickel or Stainless steel. At that point, he suggested making everything chrome, or going with the 7.6 inch Moen diverter spout I had preselected to make everything brushed nickel.
But I had already decided otherwise, that it was OK for the spout to be chrome and everything else Brushed Nickel. I know this is bending "the rules" but if you read design blogs as much as I do, you find that nearly everyone bends the rules. Mixing different finishes *can* be done. My thought was a chrome spout, sort of in "the middle", with everything else brushed nickel would be OK. If the Corolais had been available in Brushed Nickel I would have gotten that. But function is the most important thing, and the Coralais looks like the best diverter spout for someone with a Bellwether tub. Looks made for that purpose. Matches the style too. Most other spouts are too short.
Speaking of which, the Delta valve cover and shower head are not actually brushed nickel either. They are "stainless steel." But apparently Delta's regular Stainless is pretty close to what everyone else calls Brushed Nickel. It has a slight yellow undertone. Delta doesn't have a brushed nickel option for most parts. From all I can see online it's close enough, and I've read discussions on this too. Delta has recently introduced "Arctic Stainless Steel" specifically to be less yellow and match what other manufacturers call Stainless Steel. I want the original Delta stainless, basically the same as Brushed Nickel. Stainless Steel gets its colors from the steel, large amounts of nickel, and tiny bit of chromium.
The warmth of Brushed Nickel and Delta's stainless is a great match for the Almond color of my tub and the gold lines in the porcelain tile. Chrome looks bluish and cool, good for white but not almond. I also just like (have always liked) the look of brushed nickel, and it doesn't show water spots, etc. For something that gets cleaned only once a month by my housecleaners, that will be best. Some people say that Brushed Nickel is a fad…but I don't think so. I see Brushed Nickel, which was the standard high end finish before the 1920's, as resuming its rightful place beside Chrome. My idea of a fad would be oil rubbed bronze…who needs that kind of maintenance hassle? Brushed Nickel is said to be equally durable to Chrome, and some say Brushed Nickel is more durable than Chrome.
The plumber will pick up and deliver the tub when it is needed from Ferguson. That way he provides delivery and warranty. He says he deals with Ferguson all the time, and will buy the other parts from them also. So I will need to cancel existing order with Ferguson and have it switched over to the plumber. I have emailed Ferguson. I worry that the sales lady might loose some commission doing it this way (going to the plumber instead).
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